Did you ever try to end you life?
Do you know someone who tried to commit suicide?
What stopped you from finding death?
What saved your friend from meeting success?
I'll go first... Several years ago after purchasing a handgun I was overwhelmed with melancholia.
Do you know someone who tried to commit suicide?
What stopped you from finding death?
What saved your friend from meeting success?
I'll go first... Several years ago after purchasing a handgun I was overwhelmed with melancholia.
As I look back now from the future I can't see any reason for feeling so down back then but being in a dark moment can have unplanned consequences and close proximity to an instrument of killing
is the primary key to unlocking success.
A gun is a cleaner kill for the dying than a knife or a noose. As if in a trance, I pulled the Smith & Wesson .357 Magnum from its locked box, jammed in some hollow-point ammo and aimed the barrel into my mouth.
Teeth slid on oily metal.
Lips pursed around the front sight. Tongue poked in the barrel as a final, cowardly, attempt to prevent science and nature from persevering through the back of my head. Thumb twitched as the trigger was tensed. Eyelids fell like curtains. Then. The phone rang.
I was sounded out of my trance. I removed the gun from my mouth and answered the phone to stop its ringing. My friend and mentor, Marshall Jamison, was on the other end calling from Fort Myers, Florida.
We spoke every week or so but I was surprised to hear from Marshall because he was in the bloom of retirement and money was tight for him and I was in the blossom of my writing career and I didn't mind paying for our long-distance bull sessions.
I answered the phone in a voice that was not my own and Marshall asked if it was me. With the back of my hand I wiped the gun oil off my lips and coldly confirmed it was me. He asked if I was okay.
I ran my tongue along my sleeve to get the taste of metal out of my mouth.
"Are you there?" He asked.
"I'm here." I said with a dry tongue.
Marshall sensed the darkness in my pause and said, "Are you thinking about hurting yourself?"
I hesitated. How did he know? Caught, I didn't know what to say. I looked over my shoulder to see if he was standing behind me. I only saw the .357 Magnum waiting for me on the bed.
Marshall asked me again, in a louder, commanding voice that shook the phone receiver against my ear, "David, are you thinking about hurting yourself?"
I answered him in a voice that was already dead, "I.. think I am." "Don't you do it, David, don't you do it!" I was struck by his urgency and his anger and I was overwhelmed with guilt and sorrow as I remembered Marshall's firstborn son and namesake -- Marshall Jamison, Jr. -- killed himself several years earlier.
Marshall, Jr. connected a hose to a car tailpipe with duct tape and taped the other end over an open car window. He died of carbon monoxide poisoning sitting in the driver's seat. His parents found him dead in their garage after returning from the grocery store.
"Don't you do it!" Marshall yelled and pushed me from his past back into our moment.
"I... I won't..." I stammered into the phone. "Promise me you won't do it! C'mon, now. Promise me! Say it!"
"I promise, Marshall. I promise you." My hand was shaking.
The rest of the conversation blended into a kind of white noise but I remember Marshall kept me on the phone for two hours and we talked about all kinds of things but not his son Marshall, Jr. -- that wasn't his style -- and not the details of what led me to what I was planning to commit.
For the next two days Marshall called me every hour to see how I was feeling. We didn't talk about why he was calling -- that wasn't his style, either -- but we both knew the unspoken reason and my dark trance eventually lifted. I have been lucky to have never had thoughts of a final commission cross my mind again.
I was grateful something inside Marshall pushed him to pick up the phone that day and call me. He saved me in a way I know he wished he'd been able to save his son.
There isn't one reason for the kind of decision that leads one to put a gun in a mouth -- there are a thousand reasons and when all those reasons pile up and align just right and the guns and the ammo are right there -- convenience and bad thoughts too easily converge with deadly consequence.
The next day we handed over our handguns to the NYPD. Having handguns in the house only confirmed our terror in the opportunity to tempt living. There is no human shame in sharing a failed suicide story because we all need reminders how tenuous and precious life is and the only cowardice isn't in the attempt but in the success.
I wager it is only the wholly healthy mind that contemplates the means of attempting the end while the incomplete and broken mind never wanders beyond the solitary living self. Here are some hard facts to help give voice to the unspoken suicide problem in America.
The CDC Reports:
Suicide is the eighth leading cause of death for all U.S. men (Anderson and Smith 2003). Males are four times more likely to die from suicide than females (CDC 2004). Suicide rates are highest among Whites and second highest among American Indian and Native Alaskan men (CDC). Of the 24,672 suicide deaths reported among men in 2001, 60% involved the use of a firearm (Anderson and Smith 2003). Women report attempting suicide during their lifetime about three times as often as men (Krug et al. 2002) The National Institute of Mental Health Reports:
In
2000, suicide was the third leading cause of death among 15- to
24-year-olds -- 10.4 of every 100,000 persons in this age
group -- following unintentional injuries and homicide. Suicide
was also the 3rd leading cause of death among children ages 10 to 14,
with a rate of 1.5 per 100,000 children in this age group. The
suicide rate for adolescents ages 15 to 19 was 8.2 deaths per 100,000
teenagers, including five times as many males as females. Among
people 20 to 24 years of age, the suicide rate was 12.8 per 100,000
young adults, with seven times as many deaths among men as among women.
Contemplating suicide is a natural human wonder of an intelligent mind. To find curiosity in living demands the same introspection into dying just as the meaning of goodness has no context without the framing presence of evil.
The difference between thinking about suicide and actually carrying it out rides on the thin impulse of the moment and on the thick irrevocable decision you have lived enough.
The problem with carrying out that decision is the logic of a melancholic mind cannot always clearly see a way out of the fog except by choosing to fall down forever into darkness and that is where the light of dialogue and the force of intervention can salvage the wages of wondering from death.
A gun is a cleaner kill for the dying than a knife or a noose. As if in a trance, I pulled the Smith & Wesson .357 Magnum from its locked box, jammed in some hollow-point ammo and aimed the barrel into my mouth.
Teeth slid on oily metal.
Lips pursed around the front sight. Tongue poked in the barrel as a final, cowardly, attempt to prevent science and nature from persevering through the back of my head. Thumb twitched as the trigger was tensed. Eyelids fell like curtains. Then. The phone rang.
I was sounded out of my trance. I removed the gun from my mouth and answered the phone to stop its ringing. My friend and mentor, Marshall Jamison, was on the other end calling from Fort Myers, Florida.
We spoke every week or so but I was surprised to hear from Marshall because he was in the bloom of retirement and money was tight for him and I was in the blossom of my writing career and I didn't mind paying for our long-distance bull sessions.
I answered the phone in a voice that was not my own and Marshall asked if it was me. With the back of my hand I wiped the gun oil off my lips and coldly confirmed it was me. He asked if I was okay.
I ran my tongue along my sleeve to get the taste of metal out of my mouth.
"Are you there?" He asked.
"I'm here." I said with a dry tongue.
Marshall sensed the darkness in my pause and said, "Are you thinking about hurting yourself?"
I hesitated. How did he know? Caught, I didn't know what to say. I looked over my shoulder to see if he was standing behind me. I only saw the .357 Magnum waiting for me on the bed.
Marshall asked me again, in a louder, commanding voice that shook the phone receiver against my ear, "David, are you thinking about hurting yourself?"
I answered him in a voice that was already dead, "I.. think I am." "Don't you do it, David, don't you do it!" I was struck by his urgency and his anger and I was overwhelmed with guilt and sorrow as I remembered Marshall's firstborn son and namesake -- Marshall Jamison, Jr. -- killed himself several years earlier.
Marshall, Jr. connected a hose to a car tailpipe with duct tape and taped the other end over an open car window. He died of carbon monoxide poisoning sitting in the driver's seat. His parents found him dead in their garage after returning from the grocery store.
"Don't you do it!" Marshall yelled and pushed me from his past back into our moment.
"I... I won't..." I stammered into the phone. "Promise me you won't do it! C'mon, now. Promise me! Say it!"
"I promise, Marshall. I promise you." My hand was shaking.
The rest of the conversation blended into a kind of white noise but I remember Marshall kept me on the phone for two hours and we talked about all kinds of things but not his son Marshall, Jr. -- that wasn't his style -- and not the details of what led me to what I was planning to commit.
For the next two days Marshall called me every hour to see how I was feeling. We didn't talk about why he was calling -- that wasn't his style, either -- but we both knew the unspoken reason and my dark trance eventually lifted. I have been lucky to have never had thoughts of a final commission cross my mind again.
I was grateful something inside Marshall pushed him to pick up the phone that day and call me. He saved me in a way I know he wished he'd been able to save his son.
There isn't one reason for the kind of decision that leads one to put a gun in a mouth -- there are a thousand reasons and when all those reasons pile up and align just right and the guns and the ammo are right there -- convenience and bad thoughts too easily converge with deadly consequence.
The next day we handed over our handguns to the NYPD. Having handguns in the house only confirmed our terror in the opportunity to tempt living. There is no human shame in sharing a failed suicide story because we all need reminders how tenuous and precious life is and the only cowardice isn't in the attempt but in the success.
I wager it is only the wholly healthy mind that contemplates the means of attempting the end while the incomplete and broken mind never wanders beyond the solitary living self. Here are some hard facts to help give voice to the unspoken suicide problem in America.
The CDC Reports:
Contemplating suicide is a natural human wonder of an intelligent mind. To find curiosity in living demands the same introspection into dying just as the meaning of goodness has no context without the framing presence of evil.
The difference between thinking about suicide and actually carrying it out rides on the thin impulse of the moment and on the thick irrevocable decision you have lived enough.
The problem with carrying out that decision is the logic of a melancholic mind cannot always clearly see a way out of the fog except by choosing to fall down forever into darkness and that is where the light of dialogue and the force of intervention can salvage the wages of wondering from death.
I hope everything is going fine for you now, David.
I have never done anything like that before.
But, I must admit that I am afraid of heights, not because I might fall, but because I have imagined stepping off of the roof of a tall building. If I am in an enclosed building or airplane, I don't have those thoughts. I've been on my own house's roof and haven't had those thoughts. It's only if I am on a roof of a very tall building. I'd never do it, so I wonder if it's my mind's way of warning me to be careful in those situations.
I think we all have death-tempting behaviors that we engage in at various times in our lives. Smoking, drinking, over eating, etc. are slower forms of self-destruction.
A couple of times, when I was younger, I was a passenger in cars being driven on country roads at speeds nearing 100MPH where any driver error would have meant death or disability.
Hello Dave!
Interesting take, Dave, thanks for sharing your thoughts and feelings with us on this issue.
There are some who would put smoking on the suicide scale. Do you?
Smoking is a proven killer with years of scientific data to back up that claim and to smoke in light of that information is, to some, the same as willfully pointing a gun to your head. Suicide by smoking just happens over years instead of seconds.
When Yul Brynner died of lung cancer he said he'd been committing suicide for the last 30 years but didn't know it.
David,
I don't know what to say.
I saved one of my friends when I was in college back home. She drank 1/2 gallon insecticide and it was just sheer coincidence that I went to see her in her room at that point of time. As I called an ambulance immediately and ran to the hospital along with her - the only question came to my mind was - ''why escape?'' I didn’t know what was the reason behind her attempt to commit suicide but whatever that might be - escapism is cowardice – irrespective of the cause. Her parents used to live in a different town and I still remember how hard it was for me to break the news to them that night.
I know escapism is tempting but I feel it is irresponsible too.
Hiya Chris!
I appreciate your help in sorting out this important issue and everything is fine now.
The whole experience was a blip in a life that could have been a final stand. I was, however, satisfied then with my life as I am now. I have future goals and dreams but if it all ended this instant, okay, I understand that’s life. The experience made me less fearful of death as an end.
When I think of all the things I’ve accomplished since then – I don’t think I would have missed them because moving forward and touching all your goals and signposts is what’s expected if you continue to live in the world.
Yes, there are all kinds of suicide -- purposeful and unwitting -- it's all a matter of perspective, I suppose. Those who claim the issue is cut and dried or black and white do not have much human expose to the treachery and delight of a free mind.
Falling off something can be deadly! You are wise to be fearful. I know two people who fell from roofs and broke their backs and were crippled for life. Another guy, a beloved high school band teacher, was putting something away in his garage, and he fell off a step ladder and landed on his head and broke his neck. He died right there in a pool of motor oil.
The moment of birth brings the path to death -- getting to the end is a hard journey to navigate on your own terms.
In July in 2004, I was in a state of terrible depression and was contemplating suicide. But, I did not let anyone know about my melancholia. But one of my younger friends who was only 18 sensed it and kept her eyes on me. She was the only one who seemed to have read my mind. But, the only reason I did not do it was for the fear of God. That hell is waiting for anyone who committed suicide. I called my pastor that I was leaving town and asked him to pray for me. So, I left town and went to an Island to meditate and find answers to my problems. I discovered Blogging and the rest is history.
Till date I am still depressed over the hopelessness of human existence in the state of chaos and wondering if God really cares about the catastrophic tragedies on earth.
Because, for me to believe in God is my greatest will power. If there is no future in God, then the history of humanity will end in futility.
I am still asking God questions.
Personally I am from a very comfortable family with landed properties and I am well loved by my family and others. But, the miserable lives of others break my heart.
Last Christmas, we received so many hampers of goods from our well wishers. But I have been among the poor years ago and saw many of the paupers begging for food during Christmas and nobody gave them expensive Christmas hampers.
I have seen a patient die, because of lack of money for an emergency surgery and nobody came to her aid. But her relations later came to spend some fortune for her funeral in shameless hypocrisy. The money spent on her coffin would have paid for that surgery that would have saved her life.
Life is full of the agonies of existential ironies.
Is it fair?
Does God care?
Two weeks ago, a hard working young man on his way from Church was killed by a hit and run driver right infront of where he was staying and he only got married months ago and the widow is pregnant. He was the only bread winner of his poor family.
Poverty or Manic-Depressive Insanity is the primary reason why people would dare to commit suicide in Nigeria.
The availability of guns and dangerous pills make suicide very easy in America and other developed countries. But in my country Nigeria, guns are not available to us, except among the ruling class who need the guns to protect themselves from the criminal armed robbers.
America must stop the public sale of firearms.
Hi Katha --
Did your friend survive?
I agree committing suicide is for cowards but sometimes people get lost and sometimes they need discovery and saving and a friend to run beside them on the way to the hospital.
Sometimes it doesn't matter what we understand or think we know -- the important thing is in the instinct of a human reaction to the circumstance of a crisis that speaks louder than decrees and helps beyond condemning.
David-
Thank you for sharing this, Im sure many of us can relate. You are fortunate to have had a mentor to guide you through a difficult time. I have never attempted suicide, though contemplating death/suicide frequently comes up during my melacholic episodies . I think if I had a gun available things might take a bad turn during one of these moments. I have held handguns in my hand, its chilling to feel that cold piece of metal in your hand and realize that in that instrument you have the power to take a life. When I feel particularly depressed I usually think about running away, abandoning my life rather than ending it. When I am depressed I feel trapped and helpless but I fear death and relish thinking far too much to end my life. The need to escape can be overwhelming at times, it invades all other thoughts and becomes seemingly detached from rational control. As you experienced contact with a trusted friend can divert attention and allow the 'spell' to pass.
That reminds me of the story about Federal Magistrate Judge Robin Dane Pierce of the Northern District of Indiana, South Bend Division. He died in a fall off of a ladder at his home in July 1999.
http://nwitimes.com/articles/1999/07/07/export373118.txt
OSINACHI --
You ask the great questions of living and you address them with insight and tenderness and I thank you for being so precise in your history and experience of loving. I feel for you. The wounds of the world hit home inside you and you feel the suffering. I admire that in a person. You are not one in the world you are one of the world.
I also admire your dedication to helping the needy and the less fortunate. There was a time in America when old money knew they owed their wealth and status to those who were not yet fully vested in America and the idea of service to the community and charity in the ghettos and gratitude in the streets had great meaning for them. Now, with instant millionaires, the need to perform duty and service and to donate and to volunteer is lost on the new wealthy and America is cheapened because of it.
The secret to preventing suicide is expression of the inner self. Tell people how you feel before they ask. BLOG -- as you have done -- to express the hard feelings that cannot be defined through the everyday life. There are smart, intuitive people around who are not of this earth who can foresee into you but we must not rely on them to save us every time. We can be lucky when our despair is noticed but we need self-expression to ward off the terms of evil darkness that lurk in every conscience.
Dear Jonathan --
I feel for you! I understand the weight and indecision that can sometimes cripple a psyche.
Life is filled with the jeopardy of "do or die" ("To Be Or Not To Be") moments -- the trick of living is to know how to choose the right second for the right answer before it's too late.
I agree holding a gun in your hand is an uncomfortable and eerie feeling and one who finds pleasure in that feeling is more dangerous to society than a suicide bomber.
Chris!
What a terrible story.
Falling so little into an immediate death reminds us life is either precious or cheap -- I'm not sure which!
Hey David,
My friend did survive and today she is more than happy with her family, friends, profession etc.
I understand what you are saying, but why surrender to the temptation? My mom used to say; both the manufacturing and expiry date written in your life (date of birth and death) was not by your choice - so why worry? Why fret over it?
I was much younger when this happened and it was an impotent rage to face the situation – my friend was unconscious for almost 12 hours and there I was, terrified, exhausted, thinking – how on earth I am going to face her parents if she doesn’t make it??? I am happy that she is doing well now.
Moreover, there are so many things in life to explore before you leave......why not exploit it? :D
Katha!
Ah! I am thrilled your friend lived! All her happiness and successes belong, in part, to you!
People surrender to temptation because they are not aware they are surrendering -- they think they are reaching out for a higher level of pain-free living.
I understand Indian culture believes in a pre-determined and pre-destined life, but I argue that life is ever-changing and filled with watershed moments of free will that can lead you down one path or another based on interactive free choice.
To believe in predestiny is to live a robotic life of the “acted upon†where you are merely a pawn and an observer of life by the circumstance of your birth instead of the immediacy of the free-will moment.
Predestiny also makes it easy to excuse a failure to thrive: The world was against me; I cannot change my station; I am always going to be poor; it was my destiny to die at 21 of suicide.
American culture teaches you can be whatever you want to be if you go out and work hard to earn it – you can change the birth of your social and economic standing by being proactive and challenging the rules of power.
Dave --
I understand what you are saying I just respectfully find your logic somewhat disingenuous and slightly self-righteous.
You were born not smoking and somewhere sometime you decided, willfully, to pollute your body and taint your future, and those around you, with smoke. The addiction belongs to you the same way the gun belongs in the hand of the successful suicide.
While it may take you longer to find the death bullet, smoking has the same ultimate behavioral consequence as the noose on the neck or the knife cutting parallel into the wrists: They're all interactive self-willed death warrants with different ETAs for demise.
Everyone can smile on their way to the penultimate self-induced end and be happy in the meantime, but unless there is some kind of outside or inside intervention against the destructive behavior, an unfortunate end is clearly in sight.
The day you announce on your blog you quit smoking is the day I comment there how happy I am you were saved from the suicide of smoking.
I'm with you, Dave, and as you know, I tried to start smoking at 14 to "fit in" with my peers and my co-workers in radio, but my body would not allow me the opportunity!
Hey David,
Probably I couldn't explain it the way it was supposed to be.
Indian culture does believe in predetermined and predestined life but doesn’t encourage succumbing to it or get overwhelmed by it. On the contrary, it teaches how to be more tolerant and patient and fight for change. To be brutally honest, if I could chose my timing of birth or death I would have chosen a different one. As I won’t be able to do it – why taking charge of leaving the world as per my choice when I know that I might not be successful? There are so many things in life to put into your effort, why wasting it to finish the race before time when you don’t know if you are going to be successful?
My friend wanted to finish the race before her time – couldn’t do it – just because I was there – I still remember I had to force her to come out of the room to get into the ambulance – she didn’t want to survive – but finally lost her sense on the way. Why waste so much energy on something that you are not sure of? I do accept myself as a ‘’pawn’’ in this world because ‘’every pawn is a potential queen!’’
And, finally – I don’t see myself as a part of my friend’s success – I just happened to be there – it could be someone else. Moreover, when the game is over – the pawn and the king go back to the same box!
Hi Katha --
I have had the "predestiny" and "free will" discussion with many of my graduate students from India. It is always a fascinating conversation. Even the highly conservative Sikhs get involved in thinking about the meaning of the issues cored in the debate.
I agree with your argument that self-determination does not mean picking the time of your birth or death.
I don't think your friend wasted her energy -- she may have been overtaken by a greater energy she could not resist and it was likely one that professed to offer peace or a larger relief from the pain of her life. Leaving that promise to re-enter your hard reality is a decision she likely did not want to make.
Now you're having it both ways! You can't claim a pre-destined life and then turn around and say you "just happened to be there!" :grin: Do not sell short your destiny, Katha. Accept your talents and the gift of life you gave back to your friend.
I wonder what the overall ratio of Pawn becoming Queen is in the world of chess. I play a lot of chess and it rarely happens, but that sliver of hope is just enough to keep many moving on in life while others see the odds of winning the kingdom as insurmountable and defeating in the schema of a predestined lot in life.
David,
I do play chess too - and I enjoy playing it. I do agree it rarely happens......but that hope of making it happen works as a life saver for some people.
I respect your empathy but that is what enraged me – my friend’s parent were not supposed to bear this loss and she didn’t seek help and same goes for your wife’s client – her children were not made in tree…..abandoning them and succumbing to life’s pain was simply selfishness. Everybody should be accountable for his/ her surroundings. I understand ‘’should be’’ doesn’t always work……..
Katha --
I understand the hope of becoming a Queen!
I feel your anger against your friend's wishes and my wife's client -- but perhaps they were following the path set out for them? Is everyone destined to have a peaceful and convenient and lovely death?
Perhaps the children left behind were meant to be motherless in order to move up and out of their lives on Social Security?
This is the point I am trying to make -- we can't know these answers -- so we must instead deal with what we know and find ways to positively deal with the negative results of an incomprehensible death.
Yes David, I understand....but the ''why'' will still be there as long as the ''incomprehensible things'' are there.
Dave --
Janna tells me the father is "no good" and has never been in the lives of the children. I don't think the father was ever married to the mother and I don't think he's even in the country. The father is not a caregiving option.
I can answer the woman in your sad story but she won't like my answer. The answer to all her questions is: "I was tired of living." Do you think that will make her feel any better?
It's selfish and cowardly reply but, in the end, that's the truth of the matter no how many thousands of ways we divide it up into events and feelings and reasons.
I understand it is especially hard for her -- but the only person who could even begin to answer her questions is dead -- so why bother asking questions that will never have an answer?
Ours is "not to reason why" -- as Tennyson said in "Charge of the Light Brigade" -- but our responsibility to those left behind to mourn is to deal with the harsh reality before us and move the discussion beyond questions and into action.
Katha --
My advice is to not waste your time asking why of the incomprehensible -- because by the very definition of the word you are never meant to understand.
Your time and energy are smarter spent on new ideas searching for comprehension and shape that your mind can then define and expand and make even better.
I have a friend. A very young 17 year old girl from Williamson, Iowa. Her name is Angel. Since she was 13 she's tried to kill herself 8 times. The last time was towards the back end of last year and she almost succeeded.
She ran a bath, and took a bottle of pills, then climbed into the bath and waited for darkness. Her best friend found her, dragged her out from under the water, called 911 and proceeded to start Artificial Respiration. The Paramedics took over when they arrived and luckily, they got her breathing again.
Angel has been a lifetime sufferer with severe clinical Depression, but her stubborness refused to allow her to go to the Doctor and get diagnosed along with the appropriate help. This last attempt on her life changed all that for a number of reasons. She said that as she slipped away, she saw another friend who's succeeded in taking his life. This friend told her it wasn't her time yet and she had to go back. He told her he loved her and will always be watching out for her.
When she came round she found herself in a private room in the psychiatric ward of the hospital. She wasn't allowed anything sharp, right down to pens and pencils. (She was given crayons to draw and write with) when she was finally allowed home she had a set of conditions and rules she HAD to abide by, no staying in her bedroom with the door shut, the door had to be wide open at all times (she could shut it for dressing and undressing) no razors to shave with in the bath,she wasn't allowed to be home alone, and her pills were hidden and away from her. She was also told to limit her time online.
Since then, Angel has been through a hell of a lot. I don't think I could have coped with the pressure. But she came through it, and she hasn't made another attempt on her life.
The point I want to make here is that killing yourself ISN'T the way to go. If you have thought of harming yourself in ANY way PLEASE call or talk to someone!! Look at what happened to MY friend. Look at what she suffered and felt when she realized what she'd done. let me tell you, she couldn't look anyone in the face for weeks, and her best friend who found her couldn't even be in the same room as her for 3 weeks following what she did, because all he saw when he looked at her, was her as he found her. A terrifying image.
Thank you SO much David, for posting this. So many people aren't aware that it's not just a case of sticking a gun to your head or taking pills. People need to take into account that you don't just wake up one day and think "Oh, I'm going to kill myself today". They don't realize that a lot of things add up for a person to get to that point.
Hi Dawn!
It's great to hear from you on this subject. I know you have a lot of wisdom to share with us and your story is great evidence of that in the form of Angel.
It is good to know you have been a strong force in Angel's life and recovery and I admire her grit and determination on both sides of the realm.
I've always been fond of saying in other discussions on topics other than this one that the criminal mind is a certain form of genius that, if turned around into goodness, would solve great mysteries of science and history that have stumped the world because of its immediate cunning and problem-solving skills.
I think Angel's mind has a similar promise where its dedication was once narrow and selfish but incredibly powerful and now it has now been tuned outward to receive the gifts of living that friends like you are willing to share with her. That kind of turnaround is rare -- usually that sort of mindset, no matter the age -- is programmed to hurtle one way and one way only.
You are absolutely right that suicide is rarely a snap decision. It may end in a snap decision but its beginnings are faraway and deep. Suicide is a slow, dripping, creeping process that takes you over like a monster. Some fight it off. Others succumb. You probably never really entirely fight it off but you become better able to say every day, "Not today" and soon enough you're silently answering that question and later that answer becomes a part of you and a protector and you're shielded from the dark night by the affirmation of the answer that allows you to live a little more in the light.
William Styron's 96-page brief, but insightful book, "Darkness Visible: A Memoir of Madness" is an excellent essay that puts some sun on the issue of melancholia, depression and suicide.
Publishers Weekly said this about the book:
A meditation on Styron's ( Sophie's Choice ) serious depression at the age of 60, this essay evokes with detachment and dignity the months-long turmoil whose symptoms included the novelist's "dank joylessness," insomnia, physical aversion to alcohol (previously "an invaluable senior partner of my intellect") and his persistent "fantasies of self-destruction" leading to psychiatric treatment and hospitalization. The book's virtues--considerable--are twofold. First, it is a pitiless and chastened record of a nearly fatal human trial far commoner than assumed--and then a literary discourse on the ways and means of our cultural discontents, observed in the figures of poet Randall Jarrell, activist Abbie Hoffman, writer Albert Camus and others. Written by one whose book-learning proves a match for his misery, the memoir travels fastidiously over perilous ground, receiving intimations of mortality and reckoning delicately with them. Always clarifying his demons, never succumbing to them in his prose, Styron's neat, tight narrative carries the bemusement of the worldly wise suddenly set off-course--and the hard-won wisdom therein. In abridged form, the essay first appeared in Vanity Fair.
Thanks for your reply David. I just want to point out that there is a classic case of Suicidal thoughts where it ISN'T something that builds up over time.
Depression sufferers. I myself suffer from Clinical depression which gets pretty bad at times, but fortunately I've never had suicidal thoughts. However I have another friend in the UK, a depression sufferer that HAS suffered suicidal thoughts, and I still remember the phone call I had from him.
This guy is a big guy, beefy, and a "tough guy". He called me up in tears, scared out of his mind because he was having suicidal thoughts. My heart went out to him then, and to this day I'm thankful he called me. I told him that Suicidal thoughts DO come with depression, it's not something he can control, and it doesn't mean he's losing his mind. He was scared he was going mad, and he told me that he knew he shouldn't be having these thoughts but he couldn't help it. I was on the phone to him for over an hour, trying to calm him down and making him promise that if he felt like he was going to try and end his life to please call me first.
He's called me a few times since then, and each time he sounds better and better. The difference between myself and him is the treatment. He takes Anti Deppressants, which I might add, can even CAUSE suicidal thoughts in some cases, whereas I opted for the natual route. I use aromatherapy and meditation. It's what works for me. Rather than pump my body full of chemicals and chemically alter my state of mind, I'd rather use aromatherapy oils and meditation to try and work through my depression. This may not work for everyone, but it works for me personally. Always go with what you're comfortable with. If you trust in yourself and yoyr choice of treatment, you can overcome ANYHTING.
David, you inspired me!!
I've done a post about this subject over on my blog, with a link back to this post of yours here. I do hope you will find the time to read it.
Warmest Regards to you.
Hello David,
I hesitate to write this comment; my writing abilities (very academically challenged) don’t match most bloggers especially the bloggers that frequent Urban Semiotic. However, I feel strongly compelled to share with you my side of the suicide discussion.
Thus said, I believe that there are exceptions to every deed and I also believe that stating that suicide is a cowardly act doesn’t always fit. People can spend a great amount of time analyzing and pondering the meaning of life and their day to day living but each human being has their own story. Each person has lived their life and even though we have many common experiences it still boils down to the fact that you can’t walk in the other persons shoes.
This leads me to speak of my personal experience. In a nutshell, I have serious mental issues and I have been diagnosed with chronic depression. Whether it was the sexual molestation when I was very young, my upbringing, the constant verbal abuse from my father, or chemical imbalances/genetics, I just don’t fit comfortably in the world. Furthermore, I’ve never felt comfortable in my own skin and since my beginning stages of awareness I’ve longed to be somewhere else, specifically heaven. I’ve had my moments of pleasure and pain but underneath even my sweetest, joyous and most fulfilling life events I would trade it all to be with God. I don’t deserve this life that I was gifted nor did I ask for it or want it.
But, I stay for love. I stay for my husband and friends. While I spend every waking moment wishing I was dead I stay in hopes that I will find the reason God gave me this gift of life and what purpose or calling I am to fulfill.
Also, I am a very loving person and my intentions are for good, so I hope with what I’ve written here, I’ve not offended you or your readers.
Thanks for listening.
Hi Dawn --
Thank you for expanding your thoughts on this issue and I understand the further points you so rightly make.
It is good to know you have a good friend who felt comfortable reaching to you in a time of desperate need.
I am glad you were able to curry a blog post of your own out of this topic and I hope we can all stick together on this and be there for each other as much as we can.
maryrose --
I am so happy you felt comfortable to post a comment. There's no reason to feel uncomfortable here -- everyone has lots of talents to offer and the quality of the writing is only a small part of the gifts we share. Sometimes the truth and experience cannot be expressed in perfect sentences or with pretty grammar. Just getting it out in whatever form it takes is enough.
I understand the complexity of your situation and I appreciate knowing your insight into how your depression controls you. I do hope you will one day be able to find more happiness in living than in the idea of death as a path to Heaven because the life you have is the gift you hold in your hands and risking death for a perceived nirvana or a hoped for higher calling leaves behind those grasping to need you and love you the most.
Mary rose, I so admire you for being able to write about your situation. I always believe it's better to be honest and open.
As you say, everyone IS indeed different, and we've all led different lives, done different things, and seen different things. What would be the point if we were all the same?
I do hope that you can find peace here on Earth. You say you hate the skin you're in, but there's something holding you back, and that thing is love. You hold love in your heart for your husband, and your friends. Yet is it not good that you are able to SHOW love? So many people cease to think of others when they make that decision to take their lives. As a suicide survivor, the guilt is immesurable when the person realizes what they've done.
Warmest Regards to you Maryrose. May you find the peace you're searching for.
That's a wonderful and warm response, Dawn.
Finely thought out and well done.
okies..ima try 2 make this short...sumone very close 2 me committed suicide n front of me & a friend of mine...since then ive had a few attempts of my own...knowin wat i know cuz of havin been through it when my friend ended his life i dont agree wif suicide...but i found myself n his shoes none the less...people always feel as if there was sumfin they coulda done...thats not usually the case tho ive found...ive found i tend 2 keep these feelings 2 myself as 2 not worry those i care bout...its been several months n tho i still have thoughts ive learnd how 2 get through life day 2 day...one thing ive found...is its nice 2 know im not alone....
Thank you for your comment, angelic_bishy, and I am happy you are here and alive to share your important story with the rest of us.
Hey there
Dawn sent me over (she said to say that :P). I guess I decided to leave a comment because this topic is close to me too. I have never lost anyone to suicide nor have I attempted it, yet its a demon I fight everyday. I have never attempted it because I told myself may years ago that if I tried it I would succeed at it. I wouldnt allow anyone close enough to know of my darkest thoughts should that day ever come. I would go off to die on my own (like a cat will do). I wouldnt give the usual (or possible) signs away as to my intention and I would not fail. I am uncertain why I think this way but I guess it has kept me alive to this day. Maybe I am too cowardly to do it or maybe my life has purpose somewhere somehow. My blog is my place to release the pain and darkness that is depression (althou its not all bad there either) and I don't hide that from anyone there.. but people in my life are a different story. They know little of my plight/fight with depression. The odd few I allowed a glimpse into that world did not cope nor react in sympathy or caring what so ever. This is my fight and mine alone.
I once heard someone say that committing suicide is selfish. I don't feel that way at all. It is a long road to the end in such a way. Is it not selfish of those around to stand by and do nothing as their "loved one" slips into this darkness? The signs are there... even with me.. my secret is visible if you look hard enough. Yes its hard to lose someone in such a way.. I believe there would be guilt that it was not prevented but at the same time if these people stopped thinking of themselves, stopped the selfish mentality, for one minute, and actually really looked at the people they care about then perhaps they would see. Of course people tend to close their eyes in such circumstances. Suicide is not selfish. Its a tragedy.
My preference for "death by choice" - slashing my wrists. My wrists are where I feel the physical manifestation of my pain. A pain that courses through me, a pain I have lived with for as long as I remember. I still question myself why I haven't succumbed to the temptation of that final release by my own choice and not having it left to any other entity or deity or whoever may be controlling my fate, but I don't know the answer. Maybe I fear more than anything returning here to face the challenges all over again.. once is enough for me.
Anyway I think I have raved on long enough. Thank you David for the chance and I like your post :)
Hi Saffire Tigress!
Thank you for sharing your feelings about this issue. I appreciate your take on the perspective of "selfishness" and I respect why you need to make that argument.
I am glad you are still here to remind us of the hurt you still so strongly feel and perhaps that's why you are still with us -- to remind us all how life can be pleasureful and painful in the same instant and those intense feelings may not feel the same to every person or be interpreted in the same logical manner.
My apologies for such a late response!
David and Dawn, thank you for showing me such kindness and making me feel that my words were important. You both write with such thoughtfulness and it may sound small but I truly appreciate the caring, warm attitude.
After re-reading my earlier comment, I think I missed the mark. The point that I was trying to express was this...Most people believe that suicide is a selfish act or a sign of weakness but having been on both sides (so to speak) I view some of the people that call it selfish to commit suicide just as selfish as the person committing the act itself. Why? Because when a person leaves this world you miss them. It’s your needs/wants that aren’t being met and the deceased person may finally find the peace he or she were looking for. Do we ever try to think of the person that is in so much agony?
Another thought, my mother passed away from cancer many years ago. She suffered horribly; mentally and physically. The medicine prolonged her life for a year but in that year she was in excruciating, never ending pain but she hung on for her family. She spoke to me that she wanted to die and that she was at peace with her life and how she lived it. I watched my beloved mother suffer as no one should and if I knew what I know now I would have told her to just go. How selfish of me to want her to stick around even though her pain was too great to bear. What I’m trying to say is that we live, love and die, that is the way it is. Am I wrong to keep some one from death because I need them to live for me or society? I’m not speaking of the type of people that use suicide attempts to get attention or treatment. I’m talking about people like my mom or people that have tried most of their lives to heal the sickness or pain inside themselves but nothing works.
Again, my intentions are only to bring another view to the discussion and I pray that I haven’t hurt anyone in anyway with my words.
Thanks for the clarification, maryrose.
You raise some important, but difficult, questions to answer!
ive tried on more than several occasions ta end ma own life...even had ma heart stop once...ill b 18 nxt month n havent had n attempt n wats been the longest time now...i finally believe thats n ma past thankfully...i also had sumone very close ta me commit suicide...a few yrs ago when i was 14...he was ma 1st bf n 16yrs old...myself n notha close friend of his witnessed him put a gun ta his head n ya...yad fink going through sumfin like that suicide would b the last thing id ever fink bout n ma own life...then again mayb not...i saw how it affected maself when he died...n his friends n family...n knowin that i dunno how i coulda thought r mayb not thought bout how ma own family n friends would b affected...guess at the low points n ma life dint matter wat anyone said...i dint think there was one single person who would so much as shed a tear should i die...i wont lie n say i don fink bout death anymore...jes that ive found things ta live for n ma life....the guy id been datin on n off again for ova a yr r now engaged...n r rela has improved so much n jes the past month alone...back n may i was ina accident n was ina coma for coupla days...after that id lost ma memory temporarily only though...n after ma friends were pretty supportive n i realized jes how much i musta meant ta them...for me memories of them were still gone at that time n they were there ta help me through n ya...i guess it jes takes realizin theres much more ta live for...anyways sorry for ramblin on...
Thank you for sharing your story, Angel.
I hope you are feeling better.
ty so much david =) i am doin alot better...sorry bout ma typin sten...im not as dumb as im sure i sound by ma typin lol but ya...gotten too used ta im's n the like
its sad ta kno that so many ppl suffer thoughts of suicide n yet going through it ik its not easy nor do u really think at the time that anyone cares...*sighs* anywhos keep up the good work david...ur words touched me as im sure they touch the many ppl who read it even if they don leave comments....take care n god bless =)
It's is very good to have you with us, Angel, because I know you are helping a lot of young people come to terms with not giving in to their dark feelings. They can look to you as an example of making the right choice to live.
I think she's popular because she comes from money and there is an unfortunate innate value in that status. She didn't have to struggle for her fame or fortune.
sten i neva said u thought i was dumb...jes a few ppl ive talkd ta don get the way i type...n ya i do kno how ta spell n talk rite...but the way i type has changed alot n the past yr plus time...but those i talk ta most online at least understand wat im sayin n if not they ask lol...n if i up n typed n proper english so ta speak it jes wouldnt b me...*shrugs*
as ta the whole paris hilton fing...all i can say is eww!!! sure shes rich n skinny [too skinny if u ask me *gags*] n blonde...but ugh!!! id take bein me ova bein r looxin like her anyday...n dats sayin alot cuz i don like maself too well lol....anywhos...tc all =)