An Earned Murder

I can't understand why people would condemn the victim of any crime.

Nobody deserves to have their life taken from them at the hand of another.

I suspect that many who would condemn the victim of a crime are jealous of her.

Our society wants to present an image of wholesome family values, while maintaining a secret society of unbridled sexuality that doesn't get spoken of in polite circles. "What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas" is the secret hedonist's battle cry.

Even the most sexually repressed person probably drop a few bucks now and again on a pay-per-view porno via their cable or satellite system. I would bet that the people who object the most to human sexuality obsess about it the most.

Those who are casting stones deep down inside wish they could be free spirited.

They don't want to admit that all human beings are sexual creatures with certain needs and desires. The natural human desire to reproduce is something they fear, instead of embracing and accepting.

Blaming the victim is a form of violence in itself.

Imette ran into the wrong person or persons when she was out at a bar late at night.

Imette didn't deserve her fate.

The blame shouldn't fall on Imette.

All of the blame must be placed on the person or persons who took Imette's life.

Those who condemn her are as despicable as the crime. Plain and simple.

Hi Chris --

I thank you for your eloquent post!

Your case against a flexible and situational morality makes a sharp and ringing point. The people who cast Imette down do lift up her killer in that process and her alleged murderer is certainly not someone to be admired or imitated.

I know Gay men who are married to women who do not know they are Gay -- and they excuse their extra-marital affairs with other men by claiming their behavior is okay as long as they don't do it in the same state in which they live with their wives.

I know straight men who cheat on their wives by claiming when they are not in the United States they are not bound by American marital laws.

I just sort of nod when I start to hear those petty excuses for behavior that is in every way a betrayal of the human condition.

I agree with you, Carla and it is so sad to see Imette's mother on television begging people not to blame her daughter for her own death. She said a woman has the right to have a drink in a bar at night and to not fear for her life afterward.

Imette was failed by more than the bouncer who killed her. If the bar had done a background check the guy never would have been hired.

Hey Karvain --

You're right. The bar dropped the ball. I have a feeling Imette's family will soon be the owner of that bar. It's a pale replacement for a beloved daughter but someone must pay for her death beyond the justice system.

The system will have to pay up, too. Where was the guy's parole officer? His parole officer would never have let him take that bouncer's job. Imette was failed by so many protective structures of society that her blood will be found on many more hands when the day of her death is through.

I agree with you, Karvain. Imette's family will do well -- and I'm sure they will use her death to enhance the lives of others.

I don’t think a murder can be earned, no one has the right to take one’s life – regardless the situation. It’s tragic that we took an earnest ownership to be judgmental but failed to take appropriate effort to educate people to respect others.

Murder is a crime; it can not be justified blaming the victim. Unfortunately we all do it – regardless of the part of the globe we are in. It reminded me the murder of Jessica Lal who was accused being a ‘’party girl’’ after being shot.

When and how we will create a ‘’safe space’’ for all?

Hi Katha!

It is wonderful to see you beautiful face next to your comments now! The keen thing is if you go back to all your other wonderful comments -- there's your face there now, too!

I love it you are using your full name. It is quite lovely in itself and it defines you and specifies the international experiences you share here.

Thank you for posting the link to Jessica Lal. What a terrible story!

The thin line between function and chaos is growing thinner every day. There's no doubt many think life is cheap, but when death becomes cheaper than a life we have a serious problem.

I think we begin to create a safe space for everyone by joining together in the common cause of looking out for each other's best interest without being selfish about it. You threaten me and you threaten my entire group and we will stand together and fight any common threats as if they were our own.

Hi David!

It seems the camera was in a pretty good mood that day - I am not that beautiful! :D

I have a mouthful name (along with a mouthful meaning!), and I have seen people struggling with it so I try to make others’ life easier by cutting it short – glad you liked it.

I agree with you, fighting together for a cause strengthens the bond – but when? How? Or, it’s just an utopian thinking?

I understand.

I was blamed, when I was raped, being told I brought it on myself for wearing “sexy” clothing. People forget very quickly that there are babies who are raped, please don't even try to explain to me how a baby is “sexy” and thus deserved to be violated. It is complete crap that the way someone looks, acts, or otherwise, is any reason or excuse for abuse.
I remember all too clearly how I was made out to be some sick and perverted male hater, praying on young men, all so I could go running to the police. How disgusting that this kind of attitude is now being cast onto a woman who is DEAD. At least I was in a position to defend myself, I am ALIVE.
This is so damn disturbing.

Katha!

You are so funny! A camera never lies! You are beautiful!
:grin:

I love your full name. It is beautiful. DON’T HIDE IT!

A good friend of mine, Nandini, never corrects anyone on how to pronounce her name because if she did that's all she would do all day is correct people. She finally taught me her name is pronounced "NUN-duh-knee" and not pronounced as it is spelled to the American ear.

Your question about bonding is important. I think we have to not rely on any sort of official networking or neighborhood watch. I think you need to find a good circle of friends and family and stick with them. Stay in touch with them. Allow them to know you and your schedule without restricting you. Never call wolf. Always be truthful and supportive. If any of that breaks, however, then trust is gone and the circle quickly collapses in on itself. It must be worked and rebuilt every day.

Oh, krome.obsession, I am sorry to hear what you went through with your rape.

It is too bad it is an allowable defense for the accused to point the finger at the other person.

There was a story in the news the other day about a co-ed accusing another of raping her. His defense was his penis was so big that it wouldn't fit in "an unwilling vagina" -- his attorney actually used that phrase when talking to the press – so the sex he had with her was consensual and not rape. It was a Twilight Zone moment when you became so overwhelmed with the ridiculousness of the defense that you can't even laugh at the stupidity of it any longer.

I fear things haven't changed much since your rape. Young women are still made out to be willing temptresses offering apples and serpents from the Garden of Eden to weak but, noble men, who would not fall if not for their alluring sexuality.

I remember my parents and grandparents saying – ‘’don’t invite trouble more than you can handle’’; ‘’prevention is better than cure’’ – etc.

I used to obey it – willingly or unwillingly. Because I knew if I was in any kind of trouble everyone would blame me for being ‘’provocative’’ or ‘’not being cautious enough’’ and along with my family members too – as they were not careful or responsible enough to incorporate ‘’right’’ judgment in me.

I understand ‘’prevention is better than cure’’ but it is so easy to shift the blame to mask the inability of not creating a safe enough environment for everybody. Complaining and blaming is comforting and effortless…..

Hey Katha --

I think you're smart to play it close to the vest. You have to be careful when dark forces want to steal -- or even borrow -- you inner light. It's best to try to stay away from situations from which you cannot knowingly find the way out before entering.

There's an old saying in the theatre -- "Know the exits!" -- so if you're in trouble you know where to run screaming from the theatre. There's also a more universal truth that might compel us onward as well: Always leave yourself two ways out of any situation – be it physical, ethereal, emotional, virtual -- because blocking two exits is harder than standing in front of the only way out where brute force and hardship and hatred can repel any chance for escape into freedom.

You are absolutely right that blame and complain is simple while doing the right thing is always hard because so many around us are only interested in the effortless.

When I was raped I was sleeping in my own bed.
Yes, this is one of the many reasons why I have serious problems sleeping at night. I once stayed awake for a week because of it, I have nifty drugs to knock me out now though, yay for drugs! Anyway.

I agree that we should be careful about what we do, it is one of the first things I was taught in martial arts, to be aware of the situation and where it may lead. But there are countless times I've found myself in dangerous situations out of the blue, chaos theory and all.

The first thing I ever actually learnt was to get out of a rape “hold”. See, it's not enough to simply avoid situations, because you can't always avoid things. We need to learn techniques for dealing with those hard times, those terrifying times.

When I awoke to a guy on me I was half asleep and terrified, but because of my training I had countless “how to get free” techniques going through my mind. I didn't take any of them, because the probability of a safe outcome for me wasn't good. So, I talked my way out of it. The ability to keep your wits about you when faced by hardship is priceless, but unfortunately you never know if you can do it until you're there.

You have had an amazing life, krome, and I thank you for sharing it with us here -- the details make the experience lively and unforgettable.

It's good you have training and that it served you well. Talking is always better than risking a confrontation with an uncertain outcome.

I can imagine it would be really hard to ever sleep naturally again after a rape experience like the one you shared with us.

Maybe I'm showing my naïveté here, but what is a "rape hold" and how does one get out of it?

I first heard about this unfortunate girl on a blog by a bouncer, who is dismayed that this guy got a job as a bouncer http://standingonthebox.blogspot.com/2006/03/my-questions.html

I didn't know people were saying the girl "earned her murder" though. That is despicable, nothing she or anyone could do would warrant such an action. She was in the wrong place at the wrong time, if it wasn't her someone else probably would have fallen foul of this guy's desire to kill someone.

The way of late is to find something else to blame a person's actions on. No-one it appears is deemed fully responsible for their own actions.

I too think the bar is going to be finding themsleves in court sometime soon.

Mik

There are typical ways that someone will try to hold you down when they are on top of you, such as holding your upper arms, shoulders, and wrists in particular ways, through to how they may use their knees to position and hold yours legs. The first class I ever took, and this was back before I was 10, actually showed me ways to get out of this .. even on a guy who was absolutely massive (considering I was 10 and the person I was working with was a full grown adult).

No, it is not normal to teach someone so young to do this.

The only reason that this wouldn't have worked is because he was in me, not just on me. Any movement in that manor could have caused serious internal damage.

Yes, it's amazing what goes through your mind when stuff like this happens.

The common way to get out of a rape hold is to use a kind of flick of the hip movement When your arms and legs are being held down you move your hips and butt to the slide slightly, then roll. Yes, that simple. It takes a little work, but you end up gouging his eyes and crushing him .. in the process. This is done by crating a claw with your hand as you place it on his face and your knee in the groin. This becomes the position in which to stand and run from.

Hi Mik!

New Yorkers aren't really blaming Imette for her own death -- but callers on conservative radio talk shows are spinning her death as a morality tale and how America has become decadent and unsafe and how East Coast liberals don't know any better than to be out late at night and drunk and acceptings a "ride home" from a stranger. It's a curious phenomenon how people who don't live in the region seem to know exactly what should have been done to save her.

Thank you for the amazing education, krome! Your graphic description of being in the hold and the proper release from captivity -- when possible -- are invaluable for those of us who can barely imagine what you must have gone through that horrible night and the sleepless nights after.

it will never cease to amaze me how ignorant some people are... it seems that we are still in the "she is a slut... she deserved it" world

such a shame

Welcome to our forum, H6!

I'm with you all the way.

Women too often get the business end of the morality stick used against them.

Sorry to hear about the crime committed against you, Krome.

Your post reminded me of a taekwondo class I took that taught ways to get away from people who might have you in certain holds. My 8-year-old son was in another class for kids and was able to flip a larger kid off from him using the techniques.

With the right circumstances, you can turn the tables on an attacker. In your situation, it sounds like there was little that could be done. A lot of self-defense depends on being aware. Being attacked while sleeping limits a lot of options.

It's interesting how a little leverage can make a world of difference in self-defense situations.

If you watch police restraining someone, you'll often see the police holding their subject by the hand with the thumb pulled up. It doesn't look like much, but the technique immobilizes many people because it hits a pressure point and also carries with it the threat of a broken arm. I had a former prison guard demonstrate his technique on me to see how it worked, and it was effective.

I'd suggest that everyone take a martial arts or self-defense class provide some tools that might never need to be used, but could make a difference in an attack.

No one who is raped ever deserves it. Ever.

I find that Someone has brought so many women across my path to tell them this, to bring comfort to them (in spite of some of my experiences, and 'because' of some).

And no one who is raped is ever to be blamed for the rape.

Yes, people may be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Yes, they may be stupid in getting drunk, or being overly-sexual, or too overtly sexy. But no one is to be blamed for a crime but the criminal.

The Bible argues it this way (though some translations make it foggy):

If a man ... forces [a woman by lying with] her, ... the man who lay with her shall die. But you shall do nothing to the ... woman; there is in the ... woman no sin deserving of death, for just as when a man rises up against his neighbor and kills him, even so is this matter. For [when] he found her ... [she] cried out, but there was no one to rescue her.
~ Deuteronomy 22:25-27, New King James Version, edited by me.

The penalty in the Bible for a rapist was death (vs. 25). I concur.

A woman who gets attacked might or might not have 'sinned', in some way or another, but she doesn't deserve death — or judgment — not by the community, and certainly not at the hands of a rapist!

No one who is raped ever deserves it. Ever.

Peace, in The Truth,
Stephen
©∞, & 3/17/2006.

Thank you for your interesting comment, Stephen and I welcome you to this blog!

It is said that all answers can be found in the Bible, it's defiantly fascinating to hear this.

Ok - so we won't blame the victim here. It is a tragedy and the ex-con bouncer is fully responsible for his heinous acts. Having said that - being drunk, rowdy and alone at a bar at 3:00 AM is a bad idea, whether you are a man or a woman. Of course she did not "bring this on herself", but this is a prime time to try to pass a sad lesson on to other from this tragedy. Your personal well-being is dependant, to some extent, on the situations you put yourself into. The world around you is full of horribly sick people and you must exercise some judgment about the situations you find yourself in.

You provide some exellent advice, Otto. Thanks for reminding us the world is a dangerous place and even more threatening the longer the sun is down.

To those who still care about Imette, I have pasted in a web site for the upcoming "A Night For Imette" A Benefit for the Imette C. Saint-Guillen 1999 Scholarship Fund.

I still care for this young woman and her family, even though I never knew her. Also, I was one of the people rallying against The Falls bar, which is now closed. I wish that ALL of Dorrian's bars were closed! From his arrogant attitude, and the carefree attitude that exists at his other bar, Dorrian's Red Hand, it is clear to me who is also responsible for Imette's untimely death.

Thank you for the great and excellent invitation, Christopher!