New York wants to let you change your birth certificate gender without having surgery.
Separating anatomy from what it means to be a man or a woman, New York City is moving forward with a plan to let people alter the sex on their birth certificate even if they have not had sex-change surgery. Under the rule being considered by the city’s Board of Health, which is likely to be adopted soon, people born in the city would be able to change the documented sex on their birth certificates by providing affidavits from a doctor and a mental health professional laying out why their patients should be considered members of the opposite sex, and asserting that their proposed change would be permanent. Applicants would have to have changed their name and shown that they had lived in their adopted gender for at least two years, but there would be no explicit medical requirements. “Surgery versus nonsurgery can be arbitrary,” said Dr. Thomas R. Frieden, the city’s health commissioner. “Somebody with a beard may have had breast-implant surgery. It’s the permanence of the transition that matters most.”The reason for this policy is that gender identification should not be an economic issue -- but having the gender-changing surgery costs tens of thousands of dollars -- this policy seeks to remove that clinging Catch-22:
In New York, the proposed change comes after four years of discussion among health officials, an eight-member panel of transgender experts and vital records offices nationwide. It is an outgrowth of the transgender community’s push to recognize that some people may not have money to get a sex-change operation, while others may not feel the need to undergo the procedure and are simply defining themselves as members of the opposite sex. While it may be a radical notion elsewhere, New York City has often tolerated such blurring of the lines of gender identity.Is gender identification merely an issue of the mind and not the body? Or is there a deeper, legalistic, concept in gender identity that must be pressed into the flesh and verified in the law?
I don't really have a problem with the legislation either.
I remember reading or hearing that the legislation requires a two year commitment to the gender change before their identity docs can be changed. Most people wanting to "play around" aren't going to go change their gender without some serious thinking about the consequences.
I went to the source for all cutting edge things and cheap electronics -- Craigslist -- to see what people were saying about the NYC law change.
I don't know if this is true or not, but one person made this comment:
Hi Chris!
I vote to remove all gender identifications from all languages! The "Male" and "Female" labels in many countries are created to segregate and punish based on genitalia.
The luck of birth should have no bearing in the status of equality among human beings.
A penis and a vagina should be no more distinguishing or discriminatory than eye color or the size of one's nose.
Interesting that they are effectively removing the first label that is assigned/designated to us in this life.
"Is is a boy or a girl?" is usually the first question asked after delivery of a child - even before its health is enquired after.
The one thing that unites us all is the fact that we are human - every label applied after that has the potential to be divisive and discriminatory.
(Deep thought now ensues)
Hi Nicola!
Right! Why does it matter if the baby is a boy or a girl? Perhaps it was of value 100 years ago when the separation of labor and child-rearing was more cleaving than it is today, but now, who cares about gender today?
To make sexual assignment matter is to enforce old world ideas about gender roles, chromosome randomness and traditional roles based on chemistry and not ability.
I don't care about gender in the global sense, but I'm glad that there are lots of beautiful females -- personality counts for a lot of beauty -- out and about in society.
It'd be pretty boring if everyone ended up being androgynous creatures.
Not to stereotype, but society does need the calming influences that females provide.
Chris!
I know many women who would flay you for saying that!
Do you have a male version of SexyHipHopVixens.com?
This is tangential but I think there is great power in the uterus for those who chose to wield it. A person born with a functional housing unit for the perpetuation of the human race would seem to have more cards than one who does not.
A “woman” could in theory clone herself by using DNA from her skin cells whereas a “man” would find more difficulty doing so without an egg or a uterus.
It seems, therefore, more plausible at present for “women” to exist without “men” than vice versa.
Hi A S --
Yes, right now, women have the advantage in solitary procreation.
I think in another decade or two, though, all life can begin in a Petrie dish and gender and even DNA donation will no longer matter or be relevant.
...hmmm... If a person who is born of one gender marries a person of the opposing gender and has their gender identity changed after the marriage does it nullify the marriage in states which have passed laws stating that marriage is between one man and one woman should they move to a state with such a law?
Dave!
Are you arguing it is not possible for same-sexed people to sexually violate each other?
I think you're right -- even though you may not realize it :grin: -- that the sex of the offender makes no difference: Penetration is penetration and unwanted touching is unwanted touching.
Gender of the offender should not be important or even a consideration under the law and modern law must begin to realize a vagina can be raped and sodomized with something other than a penis and turnaround is fair play when it comes to the orifices of the “male” gender as well.
A S!
Yes, you've hit upon the ridiculous, unenforceable aspect of gender identification under the law. Science and evolution have presented us with a future where chromosomes are unimportant and male and female identity no longer hold sway over status in a society as reproductive measures or limits of power and containment over one another.
Your comment proves outright the antiquated marriage and sodomy laws are quaint and no longer applicable a modern day life.
"women have the advantage in solitary procreation."
I wouldn't say women referencing the whole... only those with viable reproductive capablity have the advantage and I agree this is not likely to be for long.
*As a side note, I only use my initials as not to have my words be tainted by the perception / presumption readers may have of my gender... although my name in its original language is gender neutral.
A S!
Yes, it's interesting you don't want to identify your gender here.
When you first started commenting I thought you were one gender.
Then you said something here a bit later that made me think you were the other gender.
Then I got to know you in email.
I understand how androgyny on the web can have great advantages.
Dave --
You might need to re-upload your Avatar. They were having trouble with that for a couple of days. Yours may have been lost in the mess.
I'm saying rape, as a male-only event, should be re-evaluated.
I'm saying the victim should be able to say "that person" raped me instead of "that man."
I'm saying it doesn't matter which sex accosted you. What matters is the person that accosted you. Why draw a gender line? To demonize someone? To ostracize them based on gender and not behavior?
DNA is still vital! It identifies the person! Who cares about the gender?!!
Hi David,
Women have a calming effect because they are usually more reasoned -- for the most part -- than men are. Of course, that has been my experience.
There are less women in prison than men, so that should be some indication of women being more calm than men. In June 2005, there were 106,174 women in state and federal prison, compared with 1,406,649 men, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics.
I should make a male counterpart to SHHV to diversify my offerings. It'd be a way reach another audience.
Chris!
The women in New York would still roast you over your POV that they are the "more calming" gender -- probably by calling you out as a genderist and a sexist and that you should get out more and celebrate women beyond sexualizing them in scanty clothes on SexyHipHopVixens.com! You certainly aren't celebrating their great power of intellect there, right?
:grin:
Hi David,
It depends on the particular women, I suppose. Some of my readers are women who enjoy the site. :)
I've gotten emails from women pointing me to their websites -- Monique Dupree being one who put SHHV on her modeling resume. The SHHV listing is third down on Monique's list of accomplishments, just below a part in Spiderman 3. (Pretty cool!) :)
The "Big Three" -- Melyssa, Esther, & Buffie -- put themselves out into the public sphere and I help them by providing a tiny slice of the publicity they are always seeking.
Maybe I'm the one who is calmed by women -- could be a brain chemistry thing. :)
When I went to London as part of a summer program with other students from my law school, we stayed in a London dorm for about a week. The shower facilities were co-ed.
There were separate stalls, so you couldn't see anything. But, there were a lot of jokes about having so-and-so come on over and help wash somebody's back. :)
Once the initial shock was gotten over, the men and women in our group didn't seem to mind being in the same room where there was co-ed naked showering.
If the stop at the London dorm had happened at the end of the trip, I'm sure there would have been quite a few instances of people washing each others' backs. It would have been the Euro-version of Las Vegas' slogan: What happens overseas stays overseas ...
My name was translated early on based on phonetics rather than meaning and I know people of both genders with the name (as translated in English) though it is more common with one gender than another, the popularity of the name amongst genders is reversed in the original language.
I believe ideas are important and it is therefore important to convey them without hindrance of identifying ones gender, etc. which can shade ones perception of what is said. Some people sub-consciously project their views of a gender or race or age or whatever on to words spoken. I prefer the ambivalence the web provides. Where people are not necessarily able to judge based on “he said, she hears”, “she said, he hears”, they think that way because they are too old / too young to understand, etc.
It is unfortunate that society as a whole still judges based on such things.
I wonder if Tiresias would have liked to change his/her birth records.
Why can't a person wait until they are of an age where they feel they are able to pick their own names rather than be named at birth?
I think gender identity is both an issue of body and mind. I knew a person back in Wisconsin who was a transgender, born as a male in Sweden, recently went through sex change surgery, therapy, name change etc. Now she got what he wanted but missing physical strength of being male – which was quite a struggle for her. I spent some time talking to her and witnessed her confusion…its nerve racking – I don’t know how a person handles it.
Chris --
Oh, I find your site calming, too. I just don't think that women, as a gender, are stereotypically calming.
:grin:
Dave --
Are homosexual men and straight men housed in the same units in prison? They all have the same gender equipment. What's the difference? Why the separation?
There are many colleges and universities that now have unisex bathrooms and dorms.
Chris!
Love the new Avatar! She is very calming.
:mrgreen:
What's written on her t-shirt?
Yes! Unisex everywhere! The Europeans have always dealt with "sexual" issues better than us.
A S!
I think the general assumption on the web that a "non-genderized" name on the web is assumed to be male behind the name, no?
Love the Tirisias mention!!!
...hmmm... Does this mean people would grow up addressing their parental units rather than Mom or Dad?
Dave --
Historically, infants of indeterminate gender have been raised as male because, the perception goes, men have more advantages and an easier time than women.
Even in cases where genetically indeterminate infants have more female genitalia then male, doctors encouraged the parents to raise the infant as male instead of female because the stereotypes and demands on the male gender were less than that of a female. It’s easier to pass in society as an “ugly” man than an “ugly” woman.
I wouldn't assume non-genderized names were male just as I wouldn't assume the names Alex, Pat, Sam or Francis were male.
Hi David,
I love BigStockPhoto.com.
The model has AzurePhone.com on her shirt.
I wish the avatar could be a little larger so it could be better read, but I might have solved that with the latest version.
A S --
I agree. Children should be able to name themselves and pick their own religion later if they so choose!
That's a rough story, Katha!
Many men who become women prefer to live as a woman but keep their "plumbing" because the reassignment surgery can really mess with sexual satisfaction.
A S --
Yes! "Mom" and "Dad" certainly are gender-prejudicial aren't they?
:grin:
A S --
I think over 90% of the people would assume those are male names including names like Lee and Bobby and Gay.
Chris!
HA!
LOVE THAT AVATAR!
:grin:
Yes, you can read her message much better now, but the calming feeling is not there as much...
:mrgreen:
I agree I wish we could choose to load the 96x96 default upload size Avatar.
I switched back to the first version of the avatar. :)
It's my way of "switching" identity without switching identity. ;)
Chris!
Harr!
:lol:
The original is more calming! You aren't switching identity. You're only switching semiotics!
:wink:
Alex,
Francis, are all unisex according to ivillage regardless of the 90% of people who may assume otherwise. In the 80's TV show, Who's the Boss, Samantha was often called Sam. The name Winifred has been shortened by some to be Fred. It is also assumed by some that the name Bobbie refers to a person of the female persuasion but that is not always the case either.
Oops. That last one should have said Alex, Francis and Pat.
Hi David,
I like that ... I should have used the term Semiotic to refer to my avatar.
A S --
ivillage.com is a community created for women -- so your names results does not surprise me. I still think the names you mention are assumed -- wrongly perhaps -- to generally mean the male gender.
We're all about the SEMIOTIC here, Chris!
:mrgreen:
I wasn't aware that ivillage was specifically geared towards either gender since I simply typed in Names & Meanings into the search engine.
www.babynames.com lists all these names as E for either gender except Francis. It lists Frances as "Female" and Francis as "Male". Isn't it strange how one letter can determine perception of gender?
Hi A S!
Yes, I agree! A single letter changes both meaning and gender! I knew a "Francis" and he HATED the name... and preferred to be called... "Fran" instead. Interesting, eh?
I knew a "Gaylord" and he LOVED his name but never wanted to be called that by friends... he insisted they call him "Gay" instead. Interesting, eh?
Both Fran and Gay were very straight men. They loved the female gender!
:grin:
I always thought the shortened version of Francis (male) was Frank. That is interesting.
The only time I think I encountered the name Gaylord was in watching the movie Meet the Parents. Was the person named after a beloved relative or something? Did he love having a unique name? Or did he truly love the name itself?
A S --
Fran came from a strong immigrant Polish family so maybe in Poland "Fran" is less feminized than it is here.
When I knew Gay 30 years ago... he was probably 65 at that time. So he was old world and old fashioned. He loved the name "Gaylord" because it was unique and I think it did have some kind of familial tie for him. If you called him that, though, he'd give you the stink eye until you corrected yourself and called him "Gay."
Gaylord Perry was a pro ball pitcher while I was growing up and he was ALWAYS referred to as "Gaylord" in the press and never "Gay."
If you ever get confused, take a moment to listen to the great masters who left poetry to explain things that aren't easily explained.
From Led Zeppelin's Stairway To Heaven remastered for modern times:
That's right.
There's still time to change the road you're on.
Wisdom for the ages.
:)
Love it, Chris!
That reminds me of a time when someone told me the lyric to "Hold on Loosely" by 38 Special was about masturbation:
I think she meant losing physycal strength, literally - because of hormonal changes.
According to her she could have built a log cabin alone before...but after the treatment - no...not anymore.
That she finds extremely frustrating...because the idea of being physically strong person was kind of ingrained in her.
Thanks, Katha!
Personally I'm against the legislation for reasons of security. Allowing people to have ID indicating a gender other than their actual physical gender makes it that much easier for identity theft to work.
That's an interesting take, jonolan, but if we are relying on gender identifiers to separate us from each other and prove our identity, we are in big trouble as a nation! :grin: