Quod Me Nutrit, Me Destruit

David,

Actually, I always thought Jolie's tattoo was pretty awesome. Then again, anything Latin is awesome...

I must admit I have a thing for tattoos. Funny that you should post this article this morning, because I was eating with some friends last night at this joint in the city that was crawling with heavily tattooed dreadlocked pierced types.

I remarked, "Look at the tattoos, some of them are gorgeous!"

Everybody looked at me like I was a weirdo...

Hi David,

In trying to understand Angelina's tatoo, I don't think we need go too deep. Maybe she was using the phrase literally, commenting on eating, and how it tends to make one fat, thereby destroying a Hollywood image. Her reminder when she looks in the mirror to stay away from the pepperoni pizza with extra cheese.

As for the cross-- no connection to the Latin, just a trendy symbol popularized by Madonna.

Donna

What is it that interests you about tattoos, Emily? Is it the freedom they provide or the rebellion against the norm they define?

Donna --

I think the placement of the phrase on her body is important. People who get tats have a significant experience deciding where to place the image and how it is positioned. She chose an intimate and erotic place that is generally hidden by clothing.

The longitude and latitude of where her children were born rests on her exposed left arm.

Adding the cross next to the phrase at just that angle is definitely a strong and suggestive sexual semiotic.

I find the whole image quite complicated and telling.

David,

I do not find tattoos particularly rebellious or "against the norm." True, they may be outlawed in most workplaces, but they have become much too popular to be considered rebellious or unique.

I just like to look at them, the same way I like to look at photographs or paintings. I don't go in for all that skull-and-crossbones, naked devil woman, barbed wire and blood stuff. But I love those big full-color designs.

Emily --

I realize a lot of younger people are tatted but most of the nation is not.

Are you inked?

David,

Ah, yes, but once all you fogies die out, the nation will be mostly tatted! ;-)

Yes, I am inked.

EMILY!

What and where is your tat and is it reflexive or reflective, you rebel, you!

David,

Alright, I will tell you, but you cannot judge me for it as you have judged poor Ms. Jolie! :mrgreen:

Mine is also a phrase. Mine is also in Latin. It is "Forma Mentis Magna Immortalisque," which translates as "The beauty of the mind is great and immortal."

As for where I had it inked, that was a bit of a conundrum. It is a large tattoo, so I needed a large expanse of skin. But, I didn't want the tattoo to be visible. So, that limited me to my lower abdomen, my lower back or across my two buttcheeks. Wasn't too much of a fan of having a tattoo across my bottom (not to mention having to lay on a table in public with it exposed for God knows how long) and I was worried that a tattoo across my gut would stretch out and be rendered unreadable if I ever got pregnant. So I opted for the lower back.

:slinks away:

Emily!

Oh wow!

So there was a process for choosing the phrase and the placement and the longterm intention!

As.

I.

Thought.

Here's a program to help get you some cheap tats:

http://www.bmezine.com/news/steppingback/20050416.html

I absolutely love tattoos, and I have quite a few. Even one that people refuse to believe, until they see it, but most won't look there, hehe ;-)

Every one of my tattoos is deeply personal and marks something in my life. A couple mark certain accomplishments, some spiritual enlightenment, and so on. But never, and I mean never, have I had a word put on my body.

Partly this is because I am much more moved by symbolism, and I like to keep the meanings close to me. I don't feel the need to spell things out. Also, I believe in living moment to moment, in a constant state of expectancy and fluidity.

I can't ever see myself living by credos or quotes. I, and most people I find interesting, are way to diverse and complex to be "summed up" by a quote. Actually I find the idea of being "summed up" by a phrase a bit freaky and stifling.

But hey, to each his or her own. One thing about tattoos, whether words or images, is that it tells you a lot about the person that serves as the canvas.

Emily!

EVERYONE WANTS A TWO HOUR TAT SESSION FOR FIVE BUCKS!

Hi Eban!

Thanks for tat insight!

What kinds of images are on you? Are they in color or grey and black?

Do you have any human faces inked?

I have a thing for dragons, and have a few. The dragons symbolize places and events in my life.

I have a grim reaper on my left arm which I had done after talking for hours with a Native American about spiritual issues.

I also have a bat, the flying kind, which is the one that most don't believe I really have. That one was a test for me, and symbolizes a true struggle in my life. That struggle was against our own government, believe it or not. Even with the bones I have broken and injuries I have received through sports and stupidity over the years, that tat was the most painful thing that I remember.

Eban!

Thanks for the details.

Why would you want to immortalize a bad event in your life on your skin?

What problem did you have with the government?

Oops, forgot this. The dragons are full color. The Reaper and bat are monotone.

Hi David,

I was just jesting about the pizza.

You are right that the location for a tatoo is meaningful. Here is a website dedicated to discussion of Angelina's tattoos--

http://www.vanishingtattoo.com/tattoo/celeb-jolie.htm

Here is an interesting quote about tattoos made by her:

Usually all my tattoos came at good times. A tattoo is something permanent when you've made a self-discovery, or something you've come to a conclusion about.
ANGELINA JOLIE, USA Today interview, July 17, 2003

The site also explains that the Latin cross covered up a dragon she got in Amsterdam when she was drunk and had lasered off.

I like Miami Ink. A lot of those on the show seem to get tattoos to commemorate a person who has died.

Donna

The tattoo doesn't represent the bad time, but the victory after the bad event.

I was in the Air Force at the time and developed a seizure disorder. I found this out when I wrecked a government truck during a seizure. The AF was trying to prove that this disorder was not caused on their end and was prosecuting me for the wreck.

This was pretty dark times as I had a strange new illness and while dealing with that I was in risk of doing jailtime and getting a dishonorable discharge.

Lucky for me, my AF attorney was actually in my corner and not on the side of his employer. He had independent screenings and exams set up in the civilian sector and proved that the AF was behind the seizure and thus I was not responsible for the wreck.

After that, things got worse for me in the squadron and a lot of people were gunning for me. I was a big guy at the time. I was a powerlifter and even though they loved pointing out I was Air Force when I did well in meets, they then tried to get judicial punishment on me for breaking weight.

My lawyer came through again. By that time my case was processed and I was honorably discharged for medical reasons one month before my term was up.

After that, I was relieved, but very raw. I felt beaten down, even though I won, and needed to "FEEL" something. I chose pain, but not the negative kind. I got the bat in the most sensitive spot I could find, and I was right. It was a rite of passage of sorts. The story of getting that tattoo is a pretty surreal and amusing, at least now. However, it is probably not appropriate for this blog, he he.

HI David,

I've never gotten a tattoo, but my brother has one of a skull with a dagger jabbed through it on his upper arm.

I've seen a lot of women with tattoos lately. Most of them -- just as Donna said earlier -- are memorials for people who've died. Or, of kids and other loved ones.

I knew a woman in the Marines who has a barcode tattoo on her neck and several others on her body. One of the tattoos had her name and blood type. While those tattoos might not have worked on others, they looked good on her.

I suspect a lot of young people with Latin phrases speaking about danger and destruction could be trying to advertise that they have experienced things beyond what their age suggests they should have experienced. Of course, in these days, it is hard to judge what experiences are normal and abnormal.

Eban --

How do you decide if a tat should be in color or black and grey?

I think all of Angelina's tats are grey and black.

Thanks for that link, Donna!

It's interesting what Angelina used to cover up a bad tattoo. There are so many things one could choose, yet she chose the sign of the cross.

Eban!

"AF was behind the seizure" what does that mean?

Were you on an Air Force scholarship?

Why get discharged a month before your term was up? Why not just go out normally?

Do you get any Air Force benefits now?

Regarding your sensitive place tattoo -- tell the story here -- just use medical terminology and not slang! :grin: Was it hard to find someone willing to rattle you with a needle there or were people lining up to torture you? :wink:

Chris!

We don't use "normal" and "abnormal" here! We're all about "average!!!" :grin:

I am tat-less as well. I can't think of anything enduring enough that I'd want to look at every day.

I always think tats around the neck invite unwanted temptation and staring at a very vulnerable spot -- especially if they are gory or instructional like "cut along dotted line" of Indian Larry fame.

Hi David,

nice topic! i don't have a tattoo myself but i do believe we have a way of using received - and passively accepted - wisdom to prop up our own beliefs/prejudices/needs/hidden agenda. i should know, i do it all the time on my blog!

here's something that stuck to my mind recently from the epic of gilgamesh (the easy-reading penguin mini-book version!) there's this part where unsure g musters up the courage to fight the fearsome giant of the forest and (i paraphrase) -

he put on his breastplate, 'The Voice of Heroes' and says, 'let me live to be the wonder of my mother, as when she nursed me on her lap'.

why did the author(s) decide to call the breastplate 'The Voice of Heroes'? Did the idea spring from the knowledge that we do, from time to time, need to borrow courage and conviction and a sense of security from wisdom received?

Hi David,

It takes courage to get a tattoo -- especially where they are extremely visible. Most women have them in places that can be covered up by regular work-type clothing. Even my brother who had a bad attitude toward conformity during the time he got his tattoo made sure that it could be covered up if he a shirt with sleeves.

Speaking of the "extranormal":

I've seen a couple of people with tattoos on their foreheads. I remember stopping at a rest area and seeing a little kid holding his mom's hand stop and point at a lady with some sort of lace tattoo that was on her forehead. Another time, I saw a guy with some sort of tattoo on his forehead walking around the courthouse. Of course, I've also seen the guys with the teardrop tattoos as well.

I drove by a couple of tattoo places today when I was driving into Chicago taking the city streets, instead of the expressways. Next time I'm close to those places, I might have to stop and take some photos. Too bad none of them were open at 7 a.m.

I was working in refrigeration at the time in the civil engineering squadron and some of the chemicals were behind the seizure. It took a couple of years to manifest symptoms and the Air Force was really trying to pin the disorder, and the wreck on me.

They even went so far as to make the claim that I was a closet freon junkie and that my seizure was brought on by clandestine snuffing sessions rather than being exposed over the course of three years working with the chemicals.

The really funny thing was, it wasn't the freon in the end, but an acid we used seasonally to clean out the systems to get ready for the summer. so much for their case.

I may try to write something on the surreal day when I had my bat tattoo "rite of passage". I need to think about it a bit. It was a crazy experience that involved biker gangs, invading mothers (not mine), threats of physical violence, near public nudity, extreme pain, and so much more. It even had a minor Henry Rollins angle.

Eban,

You should write up your story -- I'd like to read it!

Dananjay!

You ask many interesting questions.

The military especially covets totems -- both spoken and medallic -- to convey a sense of history, purpose and being. Perhaps tattoos are the civilian equivalent?

Chris!

YES! Take some shots of tattoos and find out their significant semiotic meaning and placement on the body from each person! Neat idea!

I say if you're going to get a tattoo -- get one on your forehead and get paid for it!

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/1,1249,600145187,00.html

I'm going to ask Emily if she will have "UrbanSemiotic.com" tattooed to her forehead for a dollar.

Why go to the bother and the pain of tatting yourself only to cover it up with your clothes?

i agree. there was a time when i used to think it was just vain projection. :)

I'm glad your fought the Air Force, Eban! We are hearing so many awful stories today about current soldiers who are being blamed for "pre-existing medical conditions" to get them out of the military with no benefits whatsoever.

We look forward to reading more about your bat tattoo experience! :grin:

Dananjay --

I think it still may be a projection, but not a vain one. :wink:

Chris --

I am emailing you an important note. Please watch for it!

lol! considering most of the time when we respond to a thought it's more to do with a state of mind. and to commit to something like that takes a lot of courage. i don't know if that is the right word.

what if it wasn't projection at all? we have a choice to live by it without having it imprinted on our bodies. is it then a mistrust of our own fickle minds that makes us want to have it tattooed on a body part? a fear that we may forsake the state-of-mind if we didn't constantly remind ourselves of our commitment to it? i guess that's one of the things nolan explored in memento.

that's still projection, isn't it? :)

Memento is my all-time favorite movie, Dananjay! What a great movie about life and memory and belonging.

Tats seem to be more about imprinting moments than calling up valor. I don't think it's possible to be valorous every day. I think valor works best in limited moments created by ceremony to serve a greater deed.

I guess everything is some sort of projection, Dananjay -- except for internal monologues and inner thoughts! :grin:

Hi David,

I just sent you an email!

I'll take some photos of the local tattoo place next time I get down to that area.

and i used to think projection could only be a pejorative term. :D

Chris!

Thanks for the email, my pal! I'm very excited!

Love the tattoo idea. You could make that into a fascinating series!

Dananjay!

Love your connections! Very smart!

i thought so too. ;)

Ha! :lol:

My internet is pretty spotty today and the movers are here packing things up for our move. Things are pretty hectic here at the moment. Come Monday my life should be mine again.

I will try to write up an interesting tale about the tattoo then and see if it passes the Boles quality test. I did write a story of the event once, but it was warts and all. I need to clean it up for non-mutant readers ;-)

Love it, Eban! Can't wait to give it a read! Don't forget to include images of the tat -- either real, imagined or sketched! :grin:

Good luck on the move! I feel for you. I hate moving. One year after moving to NYC we hopped around five times in a year subletting places until we were accepted into grad student married housing. We lived out of milk crates we borrowed from a grocery store in Washington, D.C.

David,

Listen here buddy, I will be doing no such thing as tattooing my forehead for a dollar! That has to be the silliest thing you've pondered in a while, including wondering what to do with the Chocolate Jesus!

Emily:

Ten Dollars is my final offer!

HA! I fart in your general direction!

Sorry, I watched Monty Python last night...

Emily!

Okay $15 -- but you have to include the full title -- "David W. Boles' Urban Semiotic" instead of the shorter Dot Com version. There's no need to answer right away -- ponder it some.

What's the difference between inking your spine or your forehead? It's all your body!

David,

The difference, dear sir, is the fact that I purposely placed my tattoo where people would not see it because I don't want people to see it. Let's think of all the things I would have to do if I got a tattoo on my forehead:

1) Quit my job
2) Get new driver's license
3) Cut my bangs
4) Cease in-person contact with my grandparents and other conservative relatives
5) Explain to every person who ever saw it why I momentarily lost touch with all good judgment/practicality/sanity/etc.

That's a lot of work for fifteen bucks.

Emily!

I'm taking that as a "maybe" and I'm holding thumbs you'll come to your senses.

$15 can buy a lot of cheese today.

I love quotations, I do have a favorite one but I am definitely not a tattoo person. I see it is another form of art using the human body as a canvas, though!

India has an interesting tradition of permanent and semi permanent tattoos for various cultural festivals and rituals which are very intricate and neatly done –

http://mehndi.littleitems.info/pages/mehndi-picture.php

http://www.kamat.com/indica/culture/bodyart/2719b.htm

http://www.kamat.com/kalranga/tribals/mptribes/117.htm

Hi Katha!

Yes! I remember when my Rutgers students would come to class with those beautiful henna "tattoos" on their hands. The intricacy and beauty in the designs was breathtaking.

Are there certain "semiotic" design pieces that must be incorporated into every tattoo or is it always designer's choice?

Hi David,

I do not know about any special meaning behind this "henna tattoo" except its aesthetic beauty but there are some tribal tattoos in India which carry some inner meaning – I don’t know much about it…I couldn’t find it online either, sorry! :-(

Thanks for the detail, Katha!

hey

jst in reply to what you said about angelina`s cross on her low abdomen. she has that tattoo there because she hated the dragon she had there before it and so instead of getting the blue dragon removed she decided to get the cross there to show her love for religion. um real nice article youve got here btw. thanks !

Thanks for the info! Fascinating stuff. It's a great reason to wonder and examine the scope and meaning of our permanent markings -- both hidden and visual.

On my lower back, the infamous quote from William Blake's Proverbs of Hell: "The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom"

That's an interesting quote, Chris! Why did you choose that place on your body to put it?

Hello David..
There are many interpretations that can be made from Ms. Jolie's tattoo other than your own Cliche' , that do not relate to drugs, sex or alcohol..
Jolie's latin idoim can relate to basically anthing nurturing necessity that the body need to survive; water for example, you CANNOT survive without water, water nourishes your body, however it can also drown you. You need heat (fire) to survive, how ever you can burn to death or die from heat exposure. Your body cannot survive without oxygen yet too much and you may be faced with 'Pulmonary Oxygen Toxicity' for example.. Ironic right? I believe that this has more meaning behind the a person wanting to seem 'rebelious', such as everything in life has to have moderation. Oh and as for the elusive large black cross, that just so happens to have the bottom of one its sides pointing to her ....., 'apparently' it was tattooed there to cover up an old one. Although this is symbolic to destruction, it perhaps is not entirely directed at her private areas as if they are the detrimental cause..

Hi alyce and welcome to Urban Semiotic!

I appreciate your take on Ms. Jolie's tattoos and the analysis of other meanings.

While somewhat late to the discussion on this, i felt i just had to chime in..I thought it was a fascinating read, as were the following comments.

First, on Jolie's tattoo. This is something i've liked since i first saw it. I know this has been a term that's become popuar with the pro-eating disorder crowd online (in direct connection to Jolie getting it, i'd bet), but I always attributed a totally different meaning to it. Living with two chronic conditions with direct connections to food and digestion (type 1 diabetes & ulcerative colitis), it's always suggested that sort of vicious circle, the necessity, inevitably or pleasure of food, but connected to the complication or even pain it can lead to. When i first saw the quote, i thought it a very fitting way to sum up my feelings on food at times.

Favorite quotes...Also in latin, but i saw and immediately took to "Inveniam viam aut faciam", translating to "I will find a way or make one". As someone else said, just about anything in latin is cool, but this struck me, as someone else later told me, a good strong statement of personal will.

Personally, i have 3 tattoos right now. That quote across my lower back, and symbols on each side of it along with dates of diagnosis to mark the two aforementioned diseases. I always liked them on others, but never really even considered getting one myself. It wasn't until this past year, at 28, that i felt something significant enough had happened to commemorate in such a way.

Thanks for the great comment, Scott! Your insight is helpful and delightful!

"Quod me . . ." was also Christopher Marlowe's motto, which seems by far a better and more potent recommendation than Ms. Jolie's.

Thanks for that extra info!

" A modo mio", "my way" in Italian.. it means a lot to me as my father was full bloded Italian and this was not only his favorite phrase but also his favorite song buy frank Sinatra.

i got it tattooed more so for his memory. but it is funny how this phrase has taken on such personal meaning to me over the years...

That's a great story, Richard!

Where do we find that tattoo on you? :grin:

Is it straight script or is there some color and decoration with it?

Scarily enough, that Latin aphorism is the name of at least one pro-ana group on Facebook.

I was researching something and decided to look this up (I also write a blog on obesity, which flows from my doctoral work on the subject, and as far as body dysmorphia is concerned, it can take many forms, extreme ones so I explore all sides.)

Ugh, Shefaly! That Facebook group concerns me as my stomach turns. No one can look at the present Ms. Jolie and not want to immediately offer her a sandwich. She is disappearing before our eyes!

What do you consider to be an ideal body -- and is that idea any different from an "achievable" body?

David:

I do not think there is an ideal body. It is highly variable - culture being the most significant aspect of variation.

Achievable body is variable too. Angelina J's body is achievable but Madonna - with food - immensely more useful (no starving for me, I am afraid).

Joan Jacobs Brumberg's Body Project is calling out to you to read about it :-) She has also written a fascinating history of anorexia..

Oh forgot to add:

Ideal - socially constructed

Achievable - one's own perspective healthy or not.

Shefaly --

I'm surprised you think culture should dictate the ideal and not medicine or science. Why the disconnect between values and fact?

Your "ideal" and "achievable" definitions also appear exclude medicine and science. Are you arguing that BMI should not be a consideration when it comes to body type and fat percentages?

What is your take on cholesterol levels? Blood pressure ranges?

Is it possible to be thin, yet medically ill; fat, yet biochemically healthy?

David:

"Is it possible to be thin, yet medically ill; fat, yet biochemically healthy?"

Short answer is of course, yes.

If you just consider how the definition of BMI evolved and how there is still no universal consensus on BMI charts for children, you will see where my 'culture' theory comes from. There is also an anthropological angle on which much has been written and is worth considering.

It is not quite accurate to extrapolate my view on body ideal to my views on BP and cholesterol.

But it has to be asked when nearly 70% of Americans (Pew data, not mine) see others as fat but not their own friends and themselves, what forces are at work except culture, psychology and anthropology? :-)

Thanks for that extra insight, Shefaly!

I am no fan of BMI, either. It's funny with my Public Health students the only thing that matters to them are numbers and calculations and means and averages.

I try to nudge them away from the mechanical and into the ethereal and cultural -- and yet here I am taking their stance in my discussion with you! :lol:

I think the reason Americans don't see themselves as fat even -- though they are -- is more due to a disconnect between body image and jingoism where nationalism triumphs over any individual body concerns.

Americans can see the fat in others -- but to see the fat in themselves directly goes against determinism and the inbred pioneer spirit.

David:

BMI is a good measure for populations but not for individuals, of course. My BMI may put me on the boundary defined by WHO for obesity related co-morbidities in Asians (yes the threshold is lower than for Caucasians), but since the BMI does not take into account the distribution, indeed % of fat in my body, it is not a good predictor of my health trajectory as it may be affected by my weight.

That Pew Research is from 2006 and about half the respondents blame their environment (so much for determinism, eh!). The whole report can be found on:

http://pewresearch.org/assets/social/pdf/Obesity.pdf

Shefaly --

Your take on BMI and fat distribution is fascinating.

That report reads quaint and wanting of "made-for-televison" headlines to me because it is just too simplistic and narrow-minded in its reach. I wish the sample size were larger and in-person interviews were provided over a longer stretch of time.

People generally overeat because they are fearful and depressed. I have yet to meet an overweight person who is successful and self-confident and we cannot discount those environmental factors that weigh on the psychology of open mouths.

David:

"I have yet to meet an overweight person who is successful and self-confident and we cannot discount those environmental factors that weigh on the psychology of open mouths."

This surprises me. Many exceptions to this are to be found in the US and I do not wish to name names but I have met at least 15 people whose accomplishments disprove it. Some of them are industry big-wigs that I sought to interview for my research and succeeded. Indeed a few of the highly respected (for which read: well funded, and in an upward spiral of influence) obesity researchers are obese themselves. One could argue 15 is not a statistically significant sample, but it is a large number when we are talking of CxO/ Consulting firm partner type people.

"People generally overeat because they are fearful and depressed."

People do not _always_ overeat when they are fearful and depressed. The individual manifestations are very different for the same kind of psychological stimuli. The cause-and-effect relationship between depression and appetite is not fully resolved although that depressed people overeat is a general stereotype.

About the report, it is probably the only one of its kind and not many have considered the subject worth investigating. But the dominant themes are not surprising.

Thanks.

I don't think I'd want a tattoo because I wouldn't want it to define me or people to define me by the tattoo; I also wouldn't want anything permanent that I might resent later. The closest to define me that I can think of would be perhaps:

"Who then is the invincible? It is he whom none of the things disturb which are independent of the will." Epictetus

If I did get one it'd be a quote in simple black and no flourishing or embellishments that would distract from the plain message. And I wouldn't have it visible, the message is very personal and would only matter to me.

Apart from the Epictetus quote I these are also favourites of mine:

"Only those who dare to fail greatly, can ever achieve greatly." Robert F. Kennedy

"Of all thieves fools are the worst; they rob you of time and temper." J. W. Goethe

Shefaly!

I didn't say "always" I said "generally."

I like your tattoo philosophy and your quotes, iris! Good stuff there!

I'm going to take it literally for the purpose of argument. What nourishes is what destroys a lot of women, especially in Hollywood. The pressure is on to be as thin as possible, and it's breaking down so many young women all over the world. What nourishes them is what the see killing their self esteem, their body image and their self worth.

The idea of tattooing a phrase like this or any of your examples on your skin, to me, means a lot. A tattoo is a permenant thing and a permanent reminder of who you or who you want to be. "What doesn't kill us makes us stronger" is the perfect example- having it forever engrained on one's body will remind that person to stay strong in hard to deal with situations- loss, tragedy, hardship, etc. The tattoo itself won't give a person strength, but it will always be there to comfor them and remind them of why they got it- to perservere.

So you feel the skin has better memory than the mind?

Well no... A good point and I'm stumped for an answer to this one :P

I think it's harder to forget when you look down and see it everyday maybe. It keeps it fresher in your mind..

Fair enough! :grin:

Here are a couple of other tattoo stories you might enjoy:

http://urbansemiotic.com/2006/01/09/forcing-the-flesh-to-remember/

http://urbansemiotic.com/2006/02/21/the-truth-in-elis-blue-tattoos/